I’m a simple guy. I see Jason Reynolds, I click. Jason is an incredible writer and orator, and one of the most thoughtful artists I’ve been lucky enough to hear speak. Jason is here today with his agent, Elena Giovinazzo.
Jason talked about his early life and about his circuitous route into publishing. He talked about how he wasn't necessarily a voracious reader. How his early attempts at making art with collaborator friends led to many closed doors and how he eventually had to move back home with his mom and take a steady job working at a clothing store.
He was confronted with what Elena referred to as the “ego of youth,” which distorted expectation and reality. These are all lessons that we artists learn as we grow out of our "ego of youth" into our artist maturity.
Jason’s editor Joanna taught him how to make narrative art, and Chris Meyers, son of Walter Dean Meyers, asked him to write a story. Jason wrote at the cash register of the clothing store where he was working. When he finished the story, Jason was asked by Elena, “do you believe in it?” He went "through his ego check" so he said, “I think so” so she sent it.
Jason's debut novel, “When I was the Greatest” was an arduous process.
He received massive edits each round. This was jarring for him. He and his other collaborator/friend Jason were used to quantity and speed over quality. Putting work out. Effort-ing their way through it. He turned edits back in 2 weeks and Elena said she wouldn’t read it because it couldn’t be good. Jason was used to fast work, get it out, do it now. This was a difficult for him, but he did it. He set up a schedule and a process and he got the edits done.
Elena sent the book out to the publishing world because she felt like it was worthy of their attention. Everyone passed. They all said it was great writing, but there was no market for a book on young black men.
There was no market, until there was. Caitlyn Dlouhy of Atheneum books for young readers sent a preemptive offer, an offer big enough to just take it off the table without negotiation. It was low, but it was preemptive. Elena went back and asked for a lot more, especially for the time.
Caitlyn responded with a letter to Jason that said that he deserves the money. He deserves the money, but if the book didn’t work, then his career would be handicapped. So he decided to take the low ball. (The deal already on the table) This was a seminal moment in Jason's career.
Caitlyn asked what his goals were. He said he would write 2 books a year, every year. She said she saw this attitude before, but he was adamant. He would do it. She said, "let’s start with the first one."
Elena and Jason stressed that a career is a process. It's made of small moments and many elements that add up to a whole. Jason is known for his awards and publications and his presence, but these things all built slowly, piece by piece. For Jason's first 10 books, the advance was the same as it was for the first books. The books all did decent business with modest advances.
It was a slow build.
Caitlyn was already making diverse books. She looked at it from a perspective of modest expectations and making the book and doing the work and not looking at awards and the ancillary things.
Think about your career holistically and not as a highlight reel.
“Your faves are really just working,” said Jason. "They’re just doing the job. There’s no magic to it.”
Jason provided some advice on choosing an agent: “At the end of the day, your career is yours. You’re the one with the pen, you’re the one with the computer…the work, the thing that’s made is yours. Your agent might have a suggestion that might be a lucrative suggestion. If you don’t want to do it, say you don’t want to do it. Depending on how they react will let you know whether they are the person for you…if there’s pushback on that, it’s based on your financial bottomline…. At the end of the day, if your decisions for yourself make them think it affects your bottom line, then it’s not the right relationship for you.
Sometimes you run out of time, sometimes you run out of talent. Your agent is supposed to say ‘ok’ and be there for you."
“My agent’s pushing me” is not something you should be saying.
Elena added: “You pay me. You pay me because I know things. But at the end of the day, it’s your name on the book, not mine. It will be in your mind for a long time. It will not be on your publisher’s mind. At the end of the day, you have to live with the book. If you don’t like the cover or the art, speak up. I’m here to be a mentor and a guide, but not to tell you what to do or not to do.”
Jason asked, What’s one of the biggest things artists don’t do? Elena answered that it's when the agent is working harder than the artist. The entitlement of ‘I deserve to be published’ when you haven’t put in the work. You have to read extensively. Respect the process, respect the people who do it really well.
Jason then asked Elena for the Agents perspective on receiving book queries.
Elena replied that the numbers are overwhelming. In the past, all queries would go into her inbox: 15 in the morning, maybe 1 or 2 during the day.
Now, over the weekend you’ll get 400 queries. There’s a lot of other people in that inbox with you.
Jason has had access to this inbox and expressed his empathy. He saw the queries they have to sift through and here are his thoughts: you can tell who ‘has a book in them’ and who’s a writer. He can tell who’s spent the last 15-20 years trying to figure this out Vs. the “I love kids” people. There’s so much talent, there’s so many people in the world.
What percentage of queries aren’t very good? Answer: like 99%
Elena has a writer who came back to her several times over the course of several years. He submitted to her annually/semi-annually for about 8 years. She finally took him on after seeing the growth of the manuscript and knowing that he put in the work.
Elena and Jason have a great relationship. Little jabs back at each other. Elena says that Jason has written some bad manuscripts, and Jason points out that Elena passed on some Jason’s best pitch. This back and forth was greeted with a lot of laughter.
How many drafts has Jason written for the newest book? Adult novel. About 12-14 versions of this book since 2016. On the way here today, his editor says “getting closer” to a 10-year project for a 45,000-word project. At some points his editor told him that he doesn’t know the book is about. He said she’s right.
On the flip side, Look Both Ways was written in 2 weeks. “2 weeks,” says Jason, because he lives with his stories, so really he’s been working on it for longer, in thought and mental preparation.
“It’s been a lot of work turning Jason Reynolds into Jason Reynolds. And it’s a lot of work on his part." He’s on the road about 200 days a year. Three. talks a day sometimes.
Simon & Schuster didn’t have a marketing plan for him. Sometimes that’s the case.
His first event was at PLA or ILA, one of the LA's. He’s there with 3 other successful authors. This is his first. They each had to give 10 minute conversations. Book bans, art history, and then Jason gets up, does his thing. One of the writers said that she wouldn’t be doing anymore without him there. These are the little moments that all add up to a career. Building, working.
Some parting advice from Jason...
Usually you’re on two tracks: commercial track or the educational track.
Jason’s on the educational track. So for him to do it, he has to be in the schools. They weren’t selling in the stores, so he had to be there. You don’t always know which track it is. You have to figure that out. If it’s eduction, "I hope you like kids."
I came in expecting an interview of an artist I truly admired. What I got was a deep insight into the relationship between an agent and an artist...both of whom I truly admire.
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